In this episode, Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar, PhD, and her former students, Dinah Ramos Ortolaza, PhD and Paola Muñoz Rodriguez, discuss the importance of nurturing diverse talent in the field, share their experiences navigating challenges from hurricanes to imposter syndrome, and reflect on how to help mentees thrive in their careers.
Episode 5: Thriving
Introduction
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Hi everyone. My name is Carmen Maldonado- Vlaar and I'm professor in neuroscience at the University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras campus. I've been professor of neuroscience at that institution, for over 28 years now. And I have had the pleasure of training a wonderful cadre of students in the field of neuroscience in a Hispanic serving institution, which is something that makes us, in my opinion, ah, important in order to increase the presence of wonderful Hispanic students in the field of neuroscience. And today, I have the wonderful opportunity to talk to two former students of mine that happen to also be in the field of neuroscience at this time at different stages of their career. first I have Dr. Dinah Ramos Ortolaza and Ms. Paula Muñoz, who both will be introducing themselves.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Hi, thank you for the introduction. My name is Dinah Ramos. I am a full professor at the Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico in Ponce. I've been here for the last 13 years already. So it's been a long time. As Dr. Maldonado said, I study in neuroscience. So it's really nice. We have a new program in neurobiology so I'm finally working with graduate students. So it's really nice. And Dr. Maldonado's input and her mentorship throughout the years has been tremendous for me to be able to succeed right now in my current position. Happy to be here.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Thank you. Paula?
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: Thank you so much for the invitation. I feel grateful to share again a space with you, Dr. Carmen Maldonado. And it's a pleasure for me to meet you, Dr. Dinah Ramos. I am Paula Muñoz. I'm a graduate student in the neuroscience program at Stanford University.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Great. And what are you doing there right now, Paula, regarding your research?
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: So currently I am working with FMRI tools, to keep it short, I'm just trying to understand the neural mechanisms of hoarding disorder. So mostly working in clinical neuroscience.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: So this, this podcast is called Think Alike? and it's with a question mark. Right. So it the under current of, of what the title entices is to think about if this mentoring and training opportunity created synergism and things that make us think the same. But obviously when as a mentor I have learned to appreciate the uniqueness of each one of my students and to try to reach out in a way that we both can grow not only as a scientist and as a professor, but also, ah, as an individual in the field. And so I just wanted to ask, you right A little bit about how was at the beginning when you started, and you enter my lab. What were the things that came into your mind? Because I have a little bit to say about how, special was when I met both of you. But I will start with, Dinah later. Paula.
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Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Okay. So, we met at the graduate program retreat. It was a really nice, activity that was, prepared for the new students at the graduate program. And it was really nice because we stayed at this little hotel in the island. And we stayed with the other students, new students, older students, with professors. And it was really nice because we got the opportunity to, to meet with potential mentors. And I knew most of them because I went to the University of Puerto Rico as an undergrad, so I knew most of them. But you were new, so I didn't know much about you. I don't even think I saw you on campus when I started the program. So I did know that I wanted to continue in neuroscience, but I wasn't sure where, ah, I hadn't select, ah, ah, a lab at that point. And I remember when I met you, I saw you in your presentation. I was so excited because I saw these, young, successful scientist. And I was, I immediately thought, okay, I need to talk to her. I want to be in her lab. I was interested in your career. You were very successful from the beginning. I wanted that. and then the project, I was in love with it. I mean, again, I knew that I wanted to continue neuroscience. And at the moment I was doing a rotation in a neuroscience lab. We were working on memory and learning. But when you started talking about addiction and cocaine and you were so excited about the project, for me, that was it. I mean, I knew that I wanted to work with you. So yeah, that was, that was it for me.
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: I remember I reached out to you when I was a high school student, not specifically to do research in your lab, but for other reasons. when I was starting my senior year at high school, I was lost regarding what to do next and, how to apply to undergrad programs. I like my school. I'm very grateful for having the opportunity to study there. But I have to acknowledge that it was not a very privileged institution. We did not had a career advisor or someone guiding, us on how to transition from school to college. I always heard going to college was a big decision. So it was something that I didn't want to take lightly. For that reason, I was trying to do my best, to orient myself. I thought, on maybe if I talk to someone working at the university, I could gain more understanding on what are my possibilities. I search on Google. I searched on Google who was, the director of the Biology Department at the University of Puerto Rico, and I found your name. It's funny because later on I found out that you were actually not the director of the Biology department anymore. the website was outdated. I think instead, you were the director of all graduate programs at the university, or something like that. but even though you could have said, oh, no, I'm not the person you're looking for, or I'm busy right now, you decided to take 10 minutes of your time and offer me some guidance. and I remember that at the end of the meeting you said, buscame para lo que necesites, which means feel free to reach out for whatever you need. And I think I took those words very seriously. So a year later, when I started my undergrad experience, I reached out to you. But this time I, was seeking the, like, the research experience, the opportunity to do research at your lab. And, I remember it was interesting times because that was, in 2017. And, that was when Hurricane Maria hit the island. So it was difficult to understand what was going to happen next. But I think I was very persistent and trying to. I was trying my best to move on and still grow, in, the academic aspect. so, you gave me the opportunity, and it was the best because at that time we were like six students, and we were all entering at the same time. So it was amazing because we were all learning together. And, Yeah, for sure. One of the best, opportunities I have ever had.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Thank you, Paula. I do remember that day when you came. I was dean of Research and Graduate Studies then. And the secretary said that there's this student that
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Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: needs to talk to you. And I said, okay, but what does she want? And then she, you know, they said that she needed some advice. And, people that know me know that when students ask for advice, that's a priority for me. So I always make time for them. And then, I remember Paula asking that and that she was a high school student. And since in our institution in Rio Piedras, there's a lot of, programs that favor high school students to have academic and research experience within our campus. So we feel that this is the way to create a path that the students can, really, take advantage of. So, sure, having a, high school student coming to the state school in Puerto Rico definitely is a priority, but then after that, we'll talk a little bit about what things change through the years. But, yes, I remember as well that day, and I also remember as well Dinah's. Even though that's longer than 2017, I remember, her in that, meeting of our graduate program that was more of a recruitment, event in Quebradillas, actually. That was where. It's just a town in Puerto Rico that is a, very lovely place next to the ocean. And, we took that venue to really, hone into the science and really engage students into graduate studies. And this is one of the things that have made also our institution very successful, in engaging, students in STEM research and, things that are important for their career. So I want to see, you know, now that you. You were in my lab, so where, if there were any expectations about how should I be as an advisor or as a mentor, do you see something that. Oh, yes, I can talk to her. I can reach out. Well, how was your feeling about interacting and seeing, me on the hands on kind of thing? I don't know either.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Uh-huh. Yeah, I can start. for me, it was kind of, refreshing experience because I had previous, research experience as an undergraduate, and I had a lot of different mentors. And when I met you and I saw your personality, it was completely different to what I was used to. So I was very excited about that. And then when I joined the lab, one of the things that really, helped me was that you trained me personally. You showed me how to do surgeries, you showed me how to do all my experiments. And then I was. I learned a lot of other things along the way, but I couldn't believe it because that never happened before. I mean, I've worked with different people, and none of them trained me. None of them took the time you took with me to make sure that I was comfortable in the lab, that I knew what I was doing. And, that was really nice. I really appreciate it. I do it with my students, and then once they are ready, then I can let them do the things independently. So that was really nice. Another thing that I really liked was that you were available even at the times when you were, department director or the graduate program director, and you might not be all the time in the lab. At other times, we knew that we could count on you. and that was really good. When we moved to the new lab, one of the things that I really liked was that your office had a glass wall. So every time you were there. We knew that you were there. Even if the door was closed, we knew that you were there. We just had to wave and you would open the door and you would listen to us. Not only, if we had issues with classes or research, but also if we had personal. Well, so for me, that was really good. And that made a difference in my journey as a graduate student.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: And Paula?
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: well, apart from the basics, like being respectful, you know, honest, kind, I don't think I had expectations. I think I learned what was a mentor with you. so, Yeah, like, not, you know, I was just like, very excited to start working and I was just, willing to have this opportunity. Of course, like, as I said before I met you, and, and I. I thought you were great. But I. We just talked like 15
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Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: minutes before. This was different. We were, going to see each other more, often. And, I think it's a plus to have a mentor that not only provides you guidance, but also give you the freedom to be curious and develop your own hypotheses and experiments. I think that is expected as a graduate level, but not when you're an undergrad. I fully realized that when I was working in the admissions committee of my program here at Stanford, where I found unusual to read applications describing how a student, took full ownership of their project from start to finish, like from formulating their research question, to writing the manuscript. And I understand it's a lot of responsibility for students, but it also requires some trust from the mentor. I truly think that having that experience is a gift. And I am very grateful, with you for giving me many of your students, that opportunity.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Thank, you, both of you, for so, kind words. But at the same time, I have to tell you that, my experience with many students, I can detect leaders. And I had found that both of you were leaders. This is something that is, you know, attribute that not every scientist has. I mean, some scientists are really good at. You know, they tell you a project and they'll do it. But there are other scientists that are really, are inquisitive and they have the capacity to create and lead things. And that was something that I found on both of you. and this is the part when Paula brings trust. The trust is very important when you are in a mentoring relationship because you have to both trust each other. Right? Because you trust on my side that I know, at least I have the experience. That advice that is sound and is based on your best Interest. But at the same time I trust you that what we discuss, that what we design, that we engage in active research. I rely on your ethic, behavior, on your also commitment to the task at hand. So is not that I don't supervise or I don't advise. It's just that I feel that this relationship is going to be very successful because both the mentee and the mentor are tuned in, in what we are, what the goal is here. And the fact that both of you are leaders in your different moments historically in my lab really made a difference to make it very successful of the outcomes that we got. For example with Dinah, Dinah took into her project to set up all the self administration suite that developed in my laboratory. Paula was very much involved with the story of oxytocin and the endocannabinoid system and how they interact in different aspects of motivated behavior. So they both end. Something that I do and they both know this is that I let students think on themselves so they come up with ideas. I mean I. And of course the ideas have to be aligned to what we do in the lab because I cannot just have money for everything obviously through my funding. But when we do have projects, I do make the students think outside the box and also make them come with their own project. And I think that has been very useful for what Paula was mentioning about creating the skills that you need early on to become a full independent scientist like Dinah is now. I knew that both of you had it in you too. And I think, I mean Paula is in, in the, in her path obviously. And now Dinah, you know, it's. For me, ah, it's so much you know, pleasure and pride to have her be full professor in one of our important institutions here in Puerto Rico. So I'm very proud of both of. And so these interactions obviously at the beginning created a very strong connection among us and that helped ah, navigate
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Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: the things that you are being achieving now. So any successful or adjustments or things that you think have arise. And after our mentoring, after you left my lab, what, what do you think, ah, you took from it that has helped you achieve what you have now.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: I'm still trying to incorporate some of the things that I learned from you. I. You mentioned trust and that is very important. I think that you trusted me too much. I don't know. I remember ah, at When I was finishing my degree, you remember that I decided that I was going to work at home because I couldn't do it in the lab. I mean, it was really nice. The environment in the lab was really nice, but I wasn't able to write in there. Then I remember that I finished writing and you said, okay, Dinah, you have to come to the lab. You have to practice your presentation in, front of me, in front of everybody. And I was like, no, I don't want to. And you insisted. And I was like, no, I don't want to. And we did discuss what I was going to present, but I never did a formal presentation in front of everybody. I don't know. I don't think I would be able to do that with anybody. and I looked back and I was like, my God, how did I say no? But for me, it was. I mean, I knew that I was ready. And for me to practice in front of everybody takes away from the actual presentations. And I didn't like it. So, I don't know. I think that you trusted me a lot with that. And I'm still trying to, do that with my students. I know that, as you mentioned, you have to look at every student individually and you have to, get to know them, to know what their potential is, and then work on that. And so, I'm trying to follow your lead on that. And then another thing that I'm still trying to learn from you, I have applied it, but it's still a struggle is to delegate. Since I am in a smaller institution, I still have to go to the lab, I still have to do a lot of experiments myself. And sometimes it's hard to just let the students do everything on their own, even if I train them. And I remember that I had some issues when I was training undergraduate students in the lab because I did have great students. But then there were a couple that it was difficult for me, personality wise. I don't know, it was difficult. And I remember that I had to talk to you because I didn't know how to handle those students. There was one in particular. And then you talked to me and you said, okay, and you have to learn to delegate. And you have to understand that not everybody is like yourself. So you have to respect that and you have to work with that. And so those words are still in my mind. And I try to remember them every time I have a student. And I maybe lose a little bit my patience with them. And then I have to remember everybody's different. And I have to look for ways for them to express and to, reach their potential without me being There all the time, supervising everything and questioning everything. And so, for me, still a learning process.
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: Yes. Adjustments to challenges. as I mentioned before, I started my freshman year in 2017, and that was when Hurricane Maria, which was a category four, hurricane, struck the island. And I remember, there was a lot of uncertainty at that time. Despite all of the challenges, we were all very resilient. All the students, all the professors. And I have to say that that's something that, I carry with me, that endurance. And I do think that translates a lot to research because, sometimes things, they're just not working. And you just have to, It's not like we have to say, like, oh, everything is fine. Like, you know, it's not that we have to ignore things, that are not, working. But it's also important to not stay in that... In that place. I remember we were doing science with, not a lot of, tools in the sense that we were trying to rebuild lab and we were trying to do, We were working on many things. It was starting again from scratch. so those challenges, ah, overcoming those challenges really helped me, to be successful. Right, now, and I. I remember that also, like, another thing that I was. That I. That I was struggling
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Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: a lot with when I was an undergrad student. It was with imposter syndrome. And I still. I still struggle with that. But I remember Dr. Carmen Maldonado was like, very, I think you trust a lot your students and you encourage them whenever you can. and I had many doubts. I remember one of my biggest doubts was the language. And I remember you telling me, you have to apply, to internship programs. And I was like, no, I can't. I can't even have a conversation in English. And, I did not. I remember in my second year, I did not, and I regret it. And then in my third year, I was like, okay, no, I have to do this. I have to overcome this. Dr. Maldonado has given me all of these opportunities, and I can't, like, you know, I can't take that from granted. I can't waste that. So I eventually applied to many programs, and I learned that, that you have to try. And that's something that I apply currently. Even with my doubts, I try to apply to whatever I can. and it's thanks to Carmen.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Yeah, well, you guys are very humble, actually. Actually, I do. But basically, all the things you have achieved, it's based on your merits. You know, this is not something that it was given to you and then you become whatever. No, this you earned. And for example, Dinah, she applied to an NRSA pre doctoral fellowship, which is extremely competitive and very few of the students get in the first try. And she did. She was the first NRSA fellowship in our department, which I'm very proud of to say. And after she finished her PhD, she went to a wonderful postdoc at Albert Einstein. And so, we're talking about that this is what we're achievements, of, investing time and effort in these wonderful, amazing students such as Dinah and Paula. And with regards to Paula, yes, at the beginning she's was a little bit hesitant, but she is someone that has so much potential and capacity, intelligence, very smart, very smart woman. And then when she was like, no, I don't think I can do it, I'm like, what are you talking about? You, you know, people give you a task and you achieve it. So why is it that you cannot go, into the US and you know, continue having new experiences? And I think this is something that, a lot of our students sometimes feel that they don't have the, you know, what it takes. So a little bit of encouragement really helps. But it's based on, and I really want to stress this is based on what I see, that you guys have the potential, because I also can't say that you force people to continue a path that perhaps is not the path for them. And I have had students where they are, you know, they really. Research is not their, you know, their final goal. Ah, professionally speaking, they want to do something else. And then you have to be honest with yourself and really find what makes you feel, that you have achieved something. professionally speaking, like Paula the research that she engaged in as an undergrad really turned her ideas into a field of neuroscience. And she was a fellow of our NeuroID program, which is a recently, awarded training program by NIH which is something that we're very proud of. And Paula is one of their members, an alum of the NeuroID program. And when she had to choose between very, very prestigious institutions like, you know, where she's at Stanford, this was something that, you know, is one of the, a good problem, you know, what should I do between this and this? You know, and I feel I really enjoy when students are at that predicament, you know, because I know that they can accomplish many things when they have the opportunity. So, Yeah, yeah.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: But can I say something? Yeah. We do have the potential and everything, but good mentors are key for success. When I first started, in the graduate program, I applied for an NSF fellowship. I didn't have research experience as
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Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: a graduate student yet, so I asked for letters, ah, of reference from my undergraduate mentors and I practically had to beg for those letters. And I remember one of mentors, waited until the last minute and, and she was like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it. And I was so frustrated. And then she said, but don't worry because that's too competitive and you might not get it anyway.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: She said that? I don't remember you telling me that.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Oh, yes, yes. It happened in my first semester.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Terrible.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: It is. And then when I decided that I was going to apply for the NRSA I, had a friend, who applied for it and he was very excited. So he said, you have to apply for it too. And you immediately, supported me. And it was really difficult because at that time it was on papers that I had to send everything by mail. And I mean, it was a mess really. And it was very challenging. But you supported me all the way. And I got it. And I remember that when I got it, I remember that I told you, oh my God, I'm rich. Because previous, to that, I had to work. I was a research technician. You gave me the opportunity to be a research technician in the lab. So I had money to support myself. So, for me it was a great experience, but it was because you allowed me to do it. And so yes, I may have, ah, the potential to do great things, but having a good mentor like yourself was key for me to be able to be successful.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: And also the other thing that happens when you keep wonderful, ah, mentees close to your heart is that they always come back and ask you for advice or ask you for a letter. I know Paula when she was, applying to her fellowships, she would reach out and then I'm, more than happy. Write letters, which is one of our, I think a duty for mentors is to keep in touch with your mentees, make sure that they're doing great, encourage them to achieve their very best and, help them, because that's what we're here for, to help them and then, and enjoy their, their accolades and their achievements. So, um, yeah. Paula, you were going to say something?
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: Yeah, no, I completely agree with Dinah that, um. I think that the story is different when you have someone that is providing you, uh, the tools and the means to. To succeed. Um, I, I also, you know, it's interesting because I remember while I was like, uh, listening to. I was also thinking that, um, you also gave me the opportunity to. To become part of a grant and receive a stipend. And at the time I was also working at, um VA while I was studying. And, um, I was thinking, how am I to, like, work, um, you know, earn. Earn money. Um, do research and, um, also study. Ah. Because I, you know, we have, we have. We have to have great, good grades and all of this stuff. Um, and I, I, Even without asking you
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: There's a couple more questions that I would like to, bring up in our conversation here and kind, of. This is a reunion for me. I haven't seen both of you for a while because we're so busy, talking about our next steps now as we go on in our careers. I mentioned a little bit about that I'm already, 28 years in the UPR and I expect to be working a little longer. I now, have other, opportunities in my professional. From the standpoint of service. Now I am, trying to, help the Society for Neuroscience through the Committee of Professional Development. And, in 2025, I'll become the president of this standing, committee, which is something that is nice. And for me it's an honor and also an opportunity once again to, strengthen and, move forward the mission of having more amazing neuroscientists throughout the world, to have their skills and opportunities to achieve their very best. So I'm really excited about that. I, just wanted to share with you, that's going on with me, and then,
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Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: continuing my work at, ah, the upr, now focusing on creating, even stronger center for Undergraduate Research, our institution, through a, wonderful, initiative that I started already since 2008. And now it continues to grow into CRiiAS which is a center that is very, productive and supportive of, our undergraduates here at our institution. So any next steps for Dinah and Paula? You guys want to share?
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Yes. so for me, just last, ah, year, I got a grant from the Department of Education.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Great.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: yes. To train students to provide stipends and money for them to be able to do the research. It's the first time we get this type of grant. It's the first time I write a grant like this. So I was in shock when I got it. yeah, it's over a million dollars for three years. So it's. Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. And so I think that with this I have what. I want to start growing the program. It's just a master's program, we don't have doctoral degrees here. So I want to try to make the best out of the program that we have to be able to recruit more students and to engage them in neuroscience. So I'm just trying to work around this, and how this administrative part of my profession works, because this is the first time I do this. And if it works, and hopefully it will, I am planning on looking for other opportunities like this one, because we need our students to have money to do research and survive. And so, for me, that's it. I'm trying to grow the program to recruit more students and to engage them in neuroscience.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Great. But, Dinah, listen, it's not to survive. It's to thrive. Remember?
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: We're not at surviving level. We are to thrive. We are going to do our very best. Remember, Remember?
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: That's true.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Paula? So what's your next step now?
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: first of all, congrats to both of you for those, you know, for all of those amazing achievements, for me. So where I am right now, is so I recently passed my green light meeting, and we'll, you know, I'm expecting to graduate on summer 2025. already submitted my publication. Perhaps today is the deadline to submit the revised version of my thesis. Ah, article. And I'm very excited for it. and I'll stay, working with my current mentor, Dr. Carolyn Rodriguez, which is amazing. I also met her thanks to, Carmen. but yeah, I could, I could stay here talking about, like, how wonderful she is, but I know that's not the question. so I'll stay working with her, and I will apply to med school.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: I, I, oh, you decided to continue the MD PhD, then.
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: Yes, it has been a persistent desire that has not, you know, I have, that I haven't been able to shut down. So I, I think it's a call. And I, I'm, excited to, I hope to better prepare to help other people combining, both professions. So, yeah, that's where I am right now. I haven't applied yet. I'll apply on May. and I'm studying for the MACT. That's what is happening right now.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Well, you see, this is a different way of getting to the outcome, the outcome that you wanted at the end, which is, you know, doing some, work. Because, for example, Carolyn Rodriguez is also an MD, PhD, clinician, scientist, and also highly regarded in the field. So it does, it makes me total sense for me to see you continue that. And I think that's a strength, for Paula, it's a little bit longer more to where to study, but I know knowing Paula, she will achieve it. So congratulations, Paula. I am happy for you that you have, this, next step in your career. The last questions that this podcast, as we started, you know, think, alike. So, let's talk a little bit about, whether mentor and mentee should think alike. You know, is that really something that should happen? Or what is your, what are your thoughts on that? And then I'll finish with my idea about it. So.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: I don't think we should think alike. I mean, if we have, if a mentor and a mentee have a strong relationship, it is great. It's a great learning process,
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Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: and we can get everything we can out of that relationship. I mean, you were a great mentor. I've had great mentors, but I've also had some mentors that are not that great, but I have still learned a lot from them. And so we don't have to think like. And besides, I thought when I first met you, I wanted to be like you. I wanted to follow the same path that you did. And I ended up following, a path a little bit different. I mean, I'm still doing research, but I am at a smaller institution. It's more. It's an primarily undergraduate institution. My, teaching load is really high, so, it's a little bit different, but I feel fulfilled. I really like what I'm doing. And I have to tell you, at the beginning I thought that maybe it was a failure for me because I was thinking about R1s and all of these big things. But then I realized I do like what I do. I do like what I am. And it's not a failure. This is just a different career path. And so. So we don't have to be alike. We don't have to think alike. But definitely we have to take the most out of that relationship. And you definitely, taught me a lot. And a lot of the things that I do now with my students and in my career are because I saw that in you and I tried to emulate everything that I learned from you.
Paula Muñoz Rodrigues: I think, like, for students, it would be great. it's great when you think alike because it's validating when mentors share similar perspective. However, I totally agree with Dinah that having diverse viewpoints, and engaging in an exchange of ideas can be incredibly valuable. Of course, it's not productive when there is no respect, but when the discussion remains respectful, I think it can actually be exciting and enriching to not think alike.
Carmen Maldonado-Vlaar: Sure. Well, my two cents on that is that definitely, there are things that we have to think alike in order for things to move forward and to agree on things that are based on something that both the mentee and the mentor, feel that is important, like experiments and. And, achieving certain milestones in your academic career. But at the same time, as I mentioned earlier, we can also, enrich our relationship through the uniqueness of each other. And of course, we can disagree in a space of respect, but at the same time, when we both agree, ah, and it's a great idea. It's so rewarding that both of us are creating this stuff together. And I think that's something that mentors, don't say it enough about. Thank you. Thanking each one of our students for doing such a wonderful job. And so I am, you know, I am just so fortunate that to have had, students like Dinah and Paula come to my lab and grow. And, this is not, you know, I really appreciate everything you guys said. I'm very, you know, touched by the things you said in this podcast. I wasn't expecting any of that. We didn't rehearse anything. We just met today to come back and talk and reunite. And, very, once again, thankful for both of you for being great individuals. and, yeah, and from the University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras. we have, wonderful, wonderful power engine of new students and amazing future scientists. So I thank you both for coming to this podcast. I always nice to talk to you and, the very best for the next steps. So thank you and have a great rest of the day.
Dinah Ramos Ortolaza: Thank you for having us
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