“Think Alike?” S3E5: Finding Opportunity Everywhere

Lightly edited for clarity and readability. 

[00:03] Vernon A. Ruffin: When students come into the institution, I tell them to focus on three things that will make them successful beyond college: it's communication, it’s motivation, and it’s time management.

[00:14] Kyla Wright: Me personally, I find opportunity in everything.

[00:18] Narrator: Welcome to Think Alike?, a podcast from Neuronline that delves into the art and science of mentorship within the neuroscience community. Neuronline is the Society for Neuroscience's home for learning and discussion. Join or renew your SfN membership to be part of the premier neuroscience community that's pushing the field forward. Support your career and advance the field alongside your peers, with year-round unlimited access to expert-led webinars, SfN annual meeting perks, and many other benefits. Become a member of the Society for Neuroscience or rejoin today at sfn.org/membership. This episode’s guests are mentor Dr. Vernon A. Ruffin and mentee Kyla Wright. 

[00:57] Vernon A. Ruffin: Hello, everybody. We are broadcasting from the Society for Neuroscience 2025 in San Diego, California. And today we are going to be talking about this podcast that Society for Neuroscience has called Think Alike?, where we talk about mentor-mentee relationships, the training that goes into it, and just in general, how the dynamics are between the mentor and the mentee. So today I am featuring one of the students that I'm training named Kyla Wright. She's a freshman at Virginia Union University. My name is Dr. Vernon A. Ruffin. I am an associate professor at Virginia Union University and also wear another hat. I have a private business called the Ruffin NeuroLab that has been used to train STEM students for professional careers. And so today we get a chance to talk about all of these wonderful things.

The first question, would be, how did we meet? And I can tell my perspective, but maybe I'm more interested in why Kyla was interested in the training. That really sets the foundation for how this training all began. So can you tell us a little bit about what your career goals are?

[02:13] Kyla Wright: Well, my career goal, my end goal is to be working within a laboratory, whether that means just being within laboratory science or being within clinical research. And that's my end goal. And I saw this opportunity as a way, especially as a freshman who's just coming to Virginia Union University, I saw this as a great opportunity to just get my foot in the door of my career.

[02:37] Vernon A. Ruffin: Yeah. And I actually am an alum of Virginia Union University. I came back in 2014. And since then, I've been trying to infuse this research culture into the institution, which was traditionally a liberal arts institution. And so as I was doing that, I would be happy to meet students that actually wanted to be engaged in research and students that were strong academically. And I knew that because of my past experience with the Society for Neuroscience, that there were a lot of opportunities out there for students. And it's just a matter of making them aware of them so they can make informed decisions. I would be remiss if I did not mention my mentors. So going through undergraduate at Virginia Union, as I mentioned, I went there, Dr. Philip Archer was my mentor.

And from there, I was able to go to Howard University, which is where Dr. C. Ovid Trouth was my mentor. He is what got me into respiration and pH physiology. And then from there, I was on a grant where I went to Yale and that lab moved to UCSD. And that was under the leadership of Dr. Gabriel Haddad. And then to do my postdoc, which I still felt like I was being mentored, it was Walter F. Boron. He's at Case Western Reserve right. Those were very influential people in how I designed my training. And I just want to make sure that I honor them for all the stuff that they've done for me. So when I first met Kyla, she was in my general biology 111 class. And already from the first introduction, I knew that she was smart. I knew that she was driven. She had a goal already.

And it was easy for me as a mentor to match my skills with the direction that she was heading. Not that I was fully overlapping in all the things that she wants to do. But I knew that I had professional contacts that could help her get it closer to what she was trying to do. So after initiating the conversation, talking about the research opportunities available at Virginia Union, Kyla decided that she wanted to become an intern. And so our class is at nine in the morning. And immediately after class, Kyla would come to my laboratory and spend two hours. And so this is a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday thing. And she was very consistent since the beginning of the semester.

When students come into the institution, I tell them to focus on three things that will make them successful beyond college: it's communication, it;s motivation, and it’s time management. And it was evident that Kyla had the ability to manage her time, that she was motivated, and that she was able to communicate. So all three boxes were quickly checked. With this time management thing, Kyla also is part of the VUU band. And she plays what instrument? 

[05:30] Kyla Wright: Euphonium. 

[05:32] Vernon A. Ruffin: She plays the euphonium. So she's very busy outside of class, but she still finds time for her future. And I think that's noteworthy that you can look beyond the immediate things to what is down the road and position yourself strategically to be successful in both things.

So after meeting, I wanted to introduce her to the research that I was doing slowly though, because I was really doing pH physiology research in the brain. And at an institution where it's mostly an undergraduate population, I realized it was difficult as students moved from semester to semester to retain the students because of all of the other extracurricular activities. So I made it a mission within the first semester of meeting Kyla to introduce her quickly to these different things. And she's also received an award, the Young Professional Award, and she's been able to meet other professionals so that as she develops academically, it can easily be infused to application or hands-on experiences. So I'm looking forward to the bright future that Kyla has. So I have a question for you, Kyla. Why did you consistently come after class?

Was it because I set it up so that right after class you would be able to walk with me to the lab? And that's more so holding you more or less accountable, because now I'm able to see you.

[07:05] Kyla Wright: I think it was more so just my passion for my future and my career. And I would like to build a strong foundation even as I begin my matriculation through college. I think it's important that I get my foot on the ground early. And since that is a value I hold myself to, it was easy for me to just come straight after class and sit and talk about my future career and things involving it.

[07:32] Vernon A. Ruffin: Yeah, I think one of the good things about Kyla is that she actually does hold herself accountable and doesn't wait for somebody to chase behind her and make her do what she knows that she's supposed to do. So as an independent researcher, those are the qualities that you want a student to have to be able to function independently. And it was without question that Kyla had those skills. Another thing that I think was strategic was that after Kyla's class, when she would return up to the lab with me, there was a more senior class there doing laboratory techniques. And so in theory, Kyla was being introduced to these different techniques. But to be able to see upperclassmen doing the actual techniques, I think really drove the point home.

It also allowed her to see the dynamics as students go from year to year, how they adjust to get ready for professional careers. And some of the things that... I think all of the things were building blocks to help her get closer to where she needed to be. But just to see the dynamic and student approaches allowed her to decide, well, this is a path that I want to go on and not so much this path or these things I really want to take advantage of. And I'm glad that she was able to see or have that foresight. So the career goals. We started off with journals, just exposing her to the research that uses those techniques that she was being exposed to.

And then as she was able to find journals, I wanted to make sure that she not only was looking at research journals related to the research that I was doing, but also to her own personal career. And so I wanted her to be in a position that when she did meet another professional, she could have a conversation not just based on how she felt, but based on references. And so as I, as the semester moved on, we had this thing called a STEM luncheon, and it highlights students that are interested in STEM and encourages them as they decide what path that they want to take at the beginning of the semester that we are supporting you. And so some of the professors were able to come and hear Kyla give a presentation.

We also had, in addition to the career development presentations, we had research presentations. So more senior people were there that were students or graduate students. One of them talked about Alzheimer's disease and I think it really gave Kyla a roadmap to what was possible. Another thing that I did that was noteworthy is that I was able, using a partnership that I had acquired with Meta, to bring my university into immersive reality. So I basically had to create a novel platform for learning that basically infuses the academic side, but also allows students to engage and interact and apply the learning that they are getting in the classroom to practical settings. So this immersive thing is really hot and brand new, and I'm hoping that the students can take full advantage of it.

But as I'm learning myself, I think that's one of the benefits of being a mentor. You continue to learn from the students as they matriculate, they are exposed to different things, they let how things are working on the ground, and you can adjust accordingly. So that was one of the things that I really wanted to highlight that with the university support, the students are actually driving and, getting closer to their goals. 

[11:33] Vernon A. Ruffin: So the next question, are there any adjustments or challenges or surprises along the way? There's always going to be surprises and there's always going to be challenges. This is part of the research that exists. And in those challenges, it's up for the investigator to be creative on how to solve these things or not and use that as an excuse to why you don't want to do something.

I am of the former where I use situations to grow from. So it doesn't matter if it's a bad situation or a good situation. I look at the positive things that can be gleaned from it. And I use that to help move myself forward as a mentor. Are there any successes or adjustments or challenges that you saw from your perspective, Kyla?

[12:17] Kyla Wright: I feel very successful in the lab. Like, I feel like we have succeeded in advancing my knowledge on my career because it's one thing to say that I want to do something. It is another to actually gain the experience of being in my career. So I think we succeeded in building me into my career and giving me experience that actually shows that I want to go into it. So I think that's a success.

[12:54] Vernon A. Ruffin: One of the things I like to also highlight is that as our school moves into this research space, other professors are presenting opportunities for students to explore research in different areas. And Kyla has, without me pushing her, taken advantage of all of these different things. So she went to VCU, which is a nearby school of Virginia Commonwealth University. Kyla also, where did you guys go? Did you guys go to Merck? Yeah, you went to Merck. So she's learning about different avenues that she can possibly take. I think when I was going through school, I thought there were only two possibilities. You can either be a teacher or you can be a researcher with a PhD, but there's so many other different things that you can do with your degree. And exposure to different environments allows you to make an informed decision.

Not only can you decide that I want to do this, but you can also decide that I do not want to do this ever again. And that exposure helps students curate their experience as they go through school. I always let Kyla know that you don't have to wait to graduate to use your skills. You don't have to wait for the end of the semester to show that you are actually making progress. There are things that can be put in place that allow you to show your skills when you present or written versions of your skills. And these are the things that really grow you as a professional, being able to write and talk about the things that you actually want to do. So kudos to you, Kyla, for taking this brave step and doing this podcast.

This is a major for Virginia Union and also the students there. So thank you. 

[14:39] Kyla Wright: I'm not restricting myself at the moment to what specific research I would like to go into. But at the moment, the latest thing that me and Dr. Ruffin have spoken about is going into proteins that regulate pH. And just using a Western blot. Yeah, just going over the techniques of how we can find proteins that regulate pH.

[14:59] Vernon A. Ruffin: Right. So my research is all about pH physiology. We have worked on characterizing the bicarbonate sensitive transporters and also the sodium hydrogen exchanger. And in the lab, we have the ability to do Western blot, which is a foundational technique for a protein study. And we also have the ability to do cell culture. So the idea is to bring in cultured cells, do Western blot on the cultured cells to identify the baseline level of protein expression and then expose the cells to hypoxia and then see if there's a change in the acid-base transporter expression and then correlate that with what could actually be happening inside of the body. So it's still the first semester.

And the foundational skills is, that I'm really focusing on is to go into the journals and learn about what has been done and what can be done and how things should be done. I also really stress understanding the equipment and the things that you're actually using to do these experiments at any level of the protocol or at any level of the thought of, what you're doing. People can question you and it makes some people run if they're really not prepared. But if they have a foundation where they understand that using this particular chemical does this and this is why you should use the chemical at a certain temperature for however long, all of those fundamental things go into the physiology that, drives the research.

And I don't want her to be the type of researcher that just pushes a button and then things happen. It's okay to push a button and make everything easy. But what happens if the button is broken? I want her to understand what happens under the hood of the car to make the car move, not just put the key in and turn it and go. So those are the things that we've been focusing on this semester. Next semester, we'll move into the hands-on experience where she'll be actually identifying proteins that she's most focused on. In March, I have an annual 3, 2, 1 NeuroSymposium. And so this will be a chance for the school and the community to be updated on the things that we spoke about in the first semester at the STEM luncheon.

And it brings together all of the stakeholders that would be able to, find value in what she's saying. For students, it's difficult and it's expensive to go to scientific conferences. You have to pay for the plane, you have to pay for the hotel, you have to make sure you are dressed appropriately, there's the food costs, there's the transportation costs. All of these things make the professional development necessary as a researcher unattainable. And so that is specifically why with my lab, the Ruffin NeuroLab, I have these annual symposiums and I bring all of the stakeholders like American Physiological Society or NIH or NSF or local people, even vendors, since it's a community now based effort, are able to come into this space. And it's a mini, not even a mini, it's a micro version of actually what's happening out here.

It's so wonderful that every year Society for Neuroscience has these conferences. And I just, I don't think that the students actually understand how invaluable this experience is. So I've been trying to duplicate that at a much smaller level, giving the students at least something to put on their CV so that they have shown that they have had exposure to research and just the culture of the scientist. Because this podcast is Think Alike?, do we think alike? I don't know. I'm really just thinking about that.

[19:01] Kyla Wright: I think in certain aspects, we do think alike, but I would say not entirely. We do have some differing approaches but for the most part, I feel like we do agree on most things that we do think alike in most aspects. But I think it is important to have some type of diversity in opinion or approach. 

[19:25] Vernon A. Ruffin: I do think that we do think alike because we're focused on the future. I think that we have similar values when it comes to academics to be resilient, to be a self-starter and to identify if there's any issues so that we can overcome them. And just in general, we're both Panthers. 

[19:47] Kyla Wright: We're both Panthers. 

[19:49] Vernon A. Ruffin: Yeah, Virginia Union Panthers. We are Panthers and I just want to make sure that the school gets recognized for all of the hard work that they're doing with these students. It's a very small private institution, but we are making a lot of noise over here. So Virginia Union Panthers, Panther Pride. 

[20:07] Kyla Wright: Panther Pride.

[20:10] Vernon A. Ruffin: I think that's something that's also valuable is making sure that she has exposure to other professors or other researchers in that department so she can take bits and pieces. I mean, this is the education that she's paying for as a student. And so all of the resources available at the institution and surrounding areas, she should take advantage of. And so I don't hold her hostage as my mentee. I just prepare her for the next step and make sure that I'm there if there's a reason for her to need a resource to continue further. And the training that I do goes beyond graduation, like there’s students... There was a student that I saw... He's not even a student. He's an assistant professor now at UCLA with his own lab. But a long time ago, he was one of my trainees.

And so to see them continue on with their careers and be successful, not only successful, but leaders in the field is just what it's all for. I mean, somebody did that for me as I was going through as a student. And it's just my honor to give back. And I think the Society for Neuroscience is the perfect place that allows us to do that. So, pearls of wisdom. Be resilient. I think is one that I take away. Don't ever underutilize your resources. Communicate. Stay motivated. Be happy. I think also one thing that I'm going to try to pass down to you is when I was going through school, I didn't have a good work-life balance. I was all work.

And at even one point I lived in the lab because I just knew if I left the lab, I wasn't going to be able to do the research. And I think that it can be easier for students going through if they are aware and have the resources to be successful. At that time, I was talking to one of my other colleagues last night at the Black In Neuro event. When we were going through school, it was only four of us. And at the Black In Neuro event, it was so many people that I couldn't even count. And they were broken down into graduate students, into postdocs, into professionals. And it was just wonderful to see, even undergraduates. And so that's really why I wanted my school, Virginia Union, to be exposed to that.

One thing about Virginia Union that I do want to mention, it has an amazing history. Most people don't know that it actually started out as a slave jail. And the places that used to confine people are now used to liberate people. And we're continuing to do that same thing as we go into technology and in the future. We want the students to have access to all of the things, even if they're at places in life where they don't necessarily have that exposure. We want to bring that exposure to them and allow them to make an informed decision.

[23:11] Kyla Wright: So my advice, would be to tell them to look for opportunity. With me personally, I find opportunity in everything. So when I started out at Virginia Union, my first interaction with Virginia Union was a summer program here called SESI. I'm from Georgia, so I'm coming to Virginia. I know nobody in Richmond. I know no one here. So my first interaction was that program during the summer. And I came here. I was a little scared, but no matter what, I made sure that I talked to anybody, not even just for the opportunity, but just to build relationships, just communicate with people, talk to people, and things will come your way.

Just make sure that you talk to people, get connections with people, because now here I am on a podcast in front of like talking to however many people. And it all came because I decided to open my mouth and take whatever opportunities that were presented to me. So just take every opportunity and make sure you build a strong network. I think that's my advice to anyone who wants a mentor or just to build themselves up as a person. 

[24:37] Vernon A. Ruffin: So I guess the last is, what are the next steps for both of us? For me to continue to train students and open up doors and opportunities for them, but not just undergraduate students, all students that are interested in STEM, even at the younger level. So I have an eight-year-old son named Mighty Malcolm, and he's very interested in math. And so I'm trying to make sure that I'm using this Meta space to make sure that he is successful as he goes through school. 

[25:10] Kyla Wright: Well, I think next steps for me, I think I'm going to ride out this mentorship as long as possible. But when that eventually comes to an end, I will try to find opportunity going towards my career, working in a lab, whether it's research or whether I'm just going into diagnosis. If I'm diagnosing people, just making sure I do what I love in life and what I have a passion for. I think that's my next step.

[25:54] Narrator: We hope this conversation inspired you as you navigate your own mentorship journey. This podcast is brought to you by Neuronline, SfN's home for learning and discussion, where you can find a variety of additional professional development resources and opportunities to connect with other neuroscientists. Check out the link in the show notes to learn more. Think Alike is produced by Amanda Kimball, Adam Katz, Cashen Almstead, Taylor Johnson, Emily O'Connor, Dominique Giles, and Marie Dussauze. Thanks for listening.